Curse

lightblade · Oct 17, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

When Prophacies first came out, ranger was refered as the Jack of all Trades. As they are capable of playing every role. Now look at Ritualist...

Current aspects of builds:
Minion Master - Rt/N covers that
Interrupt - Dissonance covers that
Blinding - Shadowsong
Healing - Restoration
Nuking - Channeling
Battery - Rt/N bip w/ Generous to recover hp
Support - Shelter/Union
Spike - Lumenation and the soon to be Rt/A with Spirit Strength

So...what does Rt can't do?

Dodo The Extinct · Oct 17, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Being a Jack Of All Trades is a pretty bad thing to be, with so many Professions available.

Nobody wants to be 2nd best.

They are the 2nd best MM
They are the 2nd best Nuker
They are the 2nd best at Direct Healing
Dissonance cannot compare to a Inturrupt Ranger
Shadowsong cannot replace a Flashbot

This is what a Ritualist is good at

Consistent DPS through Chanelling
Builds with versatility
Controlling parts of a battlefield through spirits
Team Support through Spirits

lightblade · Oct 17, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

MM - if the point of MM is to tank, then spawning power will probably make your minions a lot more durable; if the point of MM is to do damage, then using Bone Minion to trigger Explosive Growth twice will do more damage than any standard N/x MM, and you can even add in Signet of Might to make you Bone Minions do more damage. Rt/N make better use of their minions.

Nuker - Destructive was Glaive is better than Star Burst with it's larger area and not much less damage; Destruction + Rupture Soul combines both nuker and Flashbot

Direct Healing - Spirit Transfer + Attuned Was Songkai; Only competed by Word of Healing, then again WoH can't target self.

Conclusion:
Rt is very versitile, and can be used to play all roles on the field.

Redfeather1975 · Oct 18, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

The more people start exlporing ritualist builds, the sooner the misconception that rits are a 'support' class will fade away.
I primarily play a mesmer, but in my on and off playing of a PVE rit, I've clearly started to see that rit's have the highest potential in spike healing and spike damage.
The problem is it requires a great deal of forsight and strategic planning, and ritualists are not commonly played that way at this time. The spike heal or spike damage a rit can produce requires seeing 5 steps ahead and reacting to it.
Here's a quick movie of something I threw together to show that rits can do gobs of damage with proper preparation. It's not the end all in spike damage, but it gives a clear idea of what I mean by how rits are able to 'prep' skills to create spikes. Although this demonstrates spike damage, there are heals that can be worked together in the same way to spike heal. Plus ritualists are the only class with a skill capable of rezing themselves from a party wipeout....it just takes forsight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uscn_dpf-A

I hope in time people explore these 'prep' builds and practice playing them enough to show the rest of the community the power rits are capable of.

SnipiousMax · Oct 18, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

^ That was impressive.

What was it you were using?

Redfeather1975 · Oct 18, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Here are the skills in the order they were used. I'm not to good at playing a ritualist right now as my mesmer is my main, but hopefully I can get the hang of it to put the practice runs into real gameplay.

Destruction
Cruel was Doashen - target spirit while casting then wait 5-10 seconds.
Draw Spirit - after you run into the dummies
Spirit Rift - I hate the 2 second cast. It can probably be done before running due to the 3 second timer.
Ancestor's Rage - cast it on the spirit if you like.
Vengeful was Khanhei - I only used this to drop Cruel. LOL
Rupture Soul

I'm guessing all that's really needed for a cleaner spike is...
Destruction
Cruel was Doashen
Draw Spirit
Ancestor's Rage - cast it on the spirit if you like.
Rupture Soul

Terra Xin · Oct 18, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Lamentation is a good spike, but the term spike is referenced to three or more skills used in quick succession.

The only class worthy of the title "Jack of all Trades" is the Mesmer, and even they don't profess 100% well in all styles of play.

For the movie... its a good demonstration of how well Ritualists can spike, and spike quickly (A Good example of timing demonstrated as well, you managed to rupture destruction at 130damage, which is when you would best use that skill). The Skills list has basically all of the AoE skills that a Channeling rit has, from what I can tell, they are (In order)

(EDITED OUT... See above, Im so slow :P)

From my own experience, a Rit can play two entirely different roles very effectively with one skillbar. The only problem is that the rit can only play one at a time. I have a nice Ch/Res rit that only has one healing skill, but I can spam that constantly and become a decent healing monk while doing some nice damage with the rest of my bar - and like I said, I can't do both so I'm either full spamming that one heal, or im spamming my offensive spells.

SnipiousMax · Oct 18, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The only class worthy of the title "Jack of all Trades" is the Mesmer, and even they don't profess 100% well in all styles of play.

Mesmer's, like Rangers, depend pretty heavily on secondary professions to maintain the "Jack of All" status where Ritualist can do quite a bit without having to delve into their secondary.

sinican · Oct 18, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Being a Jack Of All Trades is a pretty bad thing to be, with so many Professions available.

Nobody wants to be 2nd best.

They are the 2nd best MM
They are the 2nd best Nuker
They are the 2nd best at Direct Healing
Dissonance cannot compare to a Inturrupt Ranger
Shadowsong cannot replace a Flashbot

This is what a Ritualist is good at

Consistent DPS through Chanelling
Builds with versatility
Controlling parts of a battlefield through spirits
Team Support through Spirits

very bad assumtion on the rits capabilities...

channeling is in many ways better than a nuker... effectively nuking AoE without scatering and single target nuking using the right builds even without having armor penetration which many believe ruins it

Resto rit has a really nice pure heal build that is debateably better at pure healing than a monk

also with the MMing there are many a complimentry skills in the ritualist line that make a Rt MM have longer lasting minions

Spirit hand down is a very prime point of the Ritualist

Apple · Oct 18, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

VoDtualists were made PURELY to annoy everyone who plays GvG. Listen to the players on your team on vent the moment you see the enemy has a ritualist, and they will ALL groan. That is NOT a good thing. No-one enjoys playing them and no-one enjoys playing against them.

Arkantos · Oct 18, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

VoDtualists were made PURELY to annoy everyone who plays GvG. Listen to the players on your team on vent the moment you see the enemy has a ritualist, and they will ALL groan. That is NOT a good thing. No-one enjoys playing them and no-one enjoys playing against them.

QFT. Ritualists were just there to annoy.

Patccmoi · Oct 18, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Resto Rt with other spirits in your team to power your skills (like MB&S and Spirit Transfer) is arguably better than a healing monk and can pick whatever elite they want (like Expel Hexes, Restore Conditions, etc.) and put 12 points in any secondary attribute line they want. Resilient Weapon is pretty damn insane in itself too, and Spirit Transfer is awesome.

Channeling Rt have better direct nuking than any ele can achieve.

They are far from 'second best' at nuking or healing. They have different strengths and weaknesses but in the right team build they are incredible.

Weapon Spells are very underused too out of a few ones. Brutal Weapon on an Assassin is totally crazy. Weapon of Quickening on 2-3 casters can make them MUCH more efficient. Etc.

Rts are just underused, and with new classes coming in will likely always be. But it's not cause they're not as good as other options, it's because people didn't really explore them and didn't bother with anything out of Rt Lord because it was so easy, efficient, and 'obvious'.

unmatchedfury · Oct 18, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I'm still trying to find a channeling build that doesnt sepnd 50% of its time preping spirits.items, and other stuff.

I see too many "jack of all trades " threads. NO class is jack of all trades. THe rit is positional control through spirits. They are imoble healing/protection/damage "turrets" if you will. outside their spirits range they fuction underpar compared to all other classes.

Dodo The Extinct · Oct 18, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

channeling is in many ways better than a nuker... effectively nuking AoE without scatering and single target nuking using the right builds even without having armor penetration which many believe ruins it

I never said Chanelling was not good. Chanelling is one of their greatest strengths. But they are the 2nd best Nukers. Chanelling is different than Fire Magic. Fire Magic can pump out crazy DPS for about 10 seconds. Chanelling can pump out decent DPS for a very long time.

Quote:

Resto rit has a really nice pure heal build that is debateably better at pure healing than a monk

And that is?

Quote:

also with the MMing there are many a complimentry skills in the ritualist line that make a Rt MM have longer lasting minions

Yea, and then they all go poof after 30 seconds.

SparhawkJC · Oct 18, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

I think with Death Nova it's more of a boom after 30 seconds.

Pick Me · Oct 18, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

very bad assumtion on the rits capabilities...

channeling is in many ways better than a nuker... effectively nuking AoE without scatering and single target nuking using the right builds even without having armor penetration which many believe ruins it

Resto rit has a really nice pure heal build that is debateably better at pure healing than a monk

also with the MMing there are many a complimentry skills in the ritualist line that make a Rt MM have longer lasting minions

Spirit hand down is a very prime point of the Ritualist

Well... I've read the cries of both professions, Elementalist crying they don't do enough damage, Ritualists claiming their Channelling skills sucks. I'm glad that others are seeing things differently. At any rate, Elementalists don't rely on only 1 element, Ritualist can continue doing damage for a longer period of time, but at the same token, how long do you expect your target(s) to last? Single targets, Elementalists can do condition damage, Ritualists cannot. Elementalist can become immune to attacks from Ritualists and at least they can become more resistant to elemental damage. Now I do agree with you that Ritualists can in some ways out damage an elementalist, but in some ways they can't. Depending on the scenario, it can go either way.

Ritualists in my opinion is the best at healing parties, Monks are best at healing individuals. When you compare who is better, please state which method. A pure healing monk can out heal a pure healing ritualist if there is only 1 person to heal. If there are 7 or 8 people, a pure healing ritualist can out perform and out last a pure healing monk with ease.

Longer lasting minions? On a life basis, yes that is true. On a survival basis, this may not be the case. N/Rit vs Rit/N. Necromancers have minions with better armor, do more damage and have more of them. Ritualists have healthier minions and thats it. Signet of Creation + Verata's Sacrifice + Blood of the Master vs Verata's Sacrifice + Blood of the Master. Sadly, SoC will make all animated undead last 30 seconds. Honestly, if I wanted long lasting minions, I'd take N/x because at least they can kill faster, and stay healther, even with less max health (armor can provide better longevity than just a sup rune of vigor) (/joke). That and the fact that you have more minions as a N/x, well... more longevity right?

@Unmatchedfury - you are incorrect out immoble turrets. Draw Spirit makes them more mobile.

@OP - If you choose Rit/N - cannot remove hexes, cannot run. Ritualists cannot remove hexes currently, maybe in the future, but right at this time, nope. Every class is multi-facetted, and that is what makes this game so fun to play. People should stop pigeon holing classes and widen their scope. Monks - healers only? Protection, smite, 55, pin couchine (easy target - but could be a trap). Ritualists - secondary healers? Communion, Channelling, MM bombing, Restoration, etc. Warriors only tanks? Elementalist, only nukers? Rangers only Barrage? Assassins, only a portable corpse? We have 2ndary professions for a reason, this makes everyone more than just a one dimensional character. Yes, a warrior cannot be a primary healer, but in their own way, they do protect the rest of the group.

JoeKnowMo · Oct 18, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Being a Jack Of All Trades is a pretty bad thing to be, with so many Professions available.

Nobody wants to be 2nd best.

They are the 2nd best MM
They are the 2nd best Nuker
They are the 2nd best at Direct Healing
Dissonance cannot compare to a Inturrupt Ranger
Shadowsong cannot replace a Flashbot

This is what a Ritualist is good at

Consistent DPS through Chanelling
Builds with versatility
Controlling parts of a battlefield through spirits
Team Support through Spirits

Yep, gotta agree with that. I think that's why Rits don't have a consistent spot in GvG... especially after the nerf to Shelter, Soothing, and Ritual Lord.

However, I think being Jack of all trades and King of none works out extremely well in PvE. You can look at what your team and lacking in and adjust your build for that, be it damage, degen, support, direct heals, corpse exploit, etc.

Since you know what skills your enemies are bringing in PvE, it's pretty easy to choose the most effective skill set to deal with them.

No other class is as versatile. Rits have solid healing (restoration line), great support (spirits), great e-management (Attuned Was Songkai for e.g. allows you to use most other classes, including Ele, Mes, etc. quite effectively), group diversion (xinrae), decent dps (spirits or channel), enchant removal, interruption, quick rez ability, damage buffs... and soon in NF will be able to mess with shouts and chants (Vocal Was), affect condition removal and duration even more, e-manage in more ways, etc.

We haven't seen all the skills yet, so it's impossible to guage their pvp impact (although I expect it will be about the same as now), but they'll be a great power in pve as always.

Bottom line: The Rit has more EFFECTIVE builds than any other profession in pve. I like my other professions, but I often find myself getting bored with having a few builds to work with. The Rit, being the Jack of all trades, offers freedom from being bored.

Jetdoc · Oct 18, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Ritualists in my opinion is the best at healing parties, Monks are best at healing individuals. When you compare who is better, please state which method. A pure healing monk can out heal a pure healing ritualist if there is only 1 person to heal. If there are 7 or 8 people, a pure healing ritualist can out perform and out last a pure healing monk with ease.

Very well put! That's why having a monk to deal with spike/massive heals and a ritualist to "top off" any players needing heals is by far the best combo in the game. I've said it before - I'd rather have a monk + a restoration ritualist versus 2 monks any day of the week.

SnipiousMax · Oct 18, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

^I like a Restoration rit combined with an Active Prot monk or a Blessed light monk. I can handle alot of the incendental healing, but a monk that is ready to remove conditions and hexes, mitigate incoming damage, and handle a few spike heals (either blessed light or Gift of health) is a better compliment than a straight healing monk.

lightblade · Oct 18, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

I never said Chanelling was not good. Chanelling is one of their greatest strengths. But they are the 2nd best Nukers. Chanelling is different than Fire Magic. Fire Magic can pump out crazy DPS for about 10 seconds. Chanelling can pump out decent DPS for a very long time.

Destruction + Rupture Soul + Ancestor's Rage + Destruction Was Grail(sp?)
That's 400 damage in less than 5 seconds. Beat that!

Rt can do crazy DPS too if you really want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct

Yea, and then they all go poof after 30 seconds.

And in this 30 seconds, Ritualist can do 3 times as much damage with their minion than N/x